Onus on revisors to prove unisex assignation for some scents

Can someone please explain to me why Parfumo editoral assigns genders to perfumes that have no gender assigned to them by the manufacturer, and then rejects revision requests for gender?

For example, I submitted Hacivat for revision male>unisex because there is absolutely no specification on the Nishane page that it is for men.  In fact, Nishane mentions no gender anywhere in its descriptive copy for Hacivat.  But the revision request was rejected because the burden of evidence is to produce a link to copy that says "this is unisex."

My opinion is that if the house doesn't name a gender at all in regard to a scent, it is unisex/genderless by default.  It shouldn't be up to editors to arbitrarily assign an immutable gender to a scent and then reject revision requests on the basis that no "proof" of unisex status exists.  To the response "Where does it say that it's unisex?" I say "Where does it say that it's for men?"

I really appreciate this, especially in our evolving world. I know so many women that love wearing fragrances "for men", especially rich gourmand, woody, amber, and spicy scents.

@JuleFagiola I completely agree. Also, you asked, where does the proof come from that states it is for men? 

Well, if you go back into the revision history, someone posted a revision, revising it from "unisex" to "men" based on this picture of "Hacivat," who is a character in the traditional Turkish shadow play, "Karagöz and Hacivat," also known as just "Karagöz." The character that the puppet Hacivat is based on is male. 

Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... 

Parfumo proof https://www.parfumo.com/fdb_n_...

You aren't the only one who's tried to edit "Hacivat" to unisex, there was another one three years ago, who was rebuffed based on the decision of one person - the logic being that Hacivat was a traditionally male figure in a shadow play. This is a link to another sad story of someone who tried to edit "Hacivat" to unisex and was rebuffed by the puppet from a play. https://www.parfumo.com/fdb_c_...

So, this is the proof used, based on the puppets. I do not agree with it personally, since although Hacivat is a male puppet, that does not necessarily mean that the perfume was either originally intended to be male - where is that train of logic? And even if it was intended to be male 8 years ago, why on earth can't that change?
I wish there were more explanation provided when these decisions are made, and that discussion did not immediately close once the admin, who is usually only one or two people, decides to close it. 

I have always found this an irritating part of the way this site works. But maybe if one of us goes directly to the perfumer's "contact us" page we can get this resolved for good. 

I can't help but notice that Hacivat X and Hacivat Oud are assigned for both men AND women. Then rejecting your revision makes no sense.

And in lieu of "Men and women", the word "unisex" would be a better choice, we're in 2025 for God's sake.

@EvitaVilla interestingly enough, I  contacted Nishane through their WhatsApp chat, and they said it’s unisex. I added a picture. I will try to add this reference to the database today, so we can get this resolved. 

I don't think the previous edits attempting to change it to unisex had the most merit exactly, because it had no proof, but their reasoning for it being male also had questionable logic - it also had no proof that I can see, except "Hacivat" as a male puppet. Using that same logic, why would Hacivat X and Hacivat Oud be unisex?? It doesn't make any sense, even with the flawed internal logic they used lol. 

Yeah, some mistakes were made. 
However I'm thankful that I'm not on Fragrantica, because I can't help thinking that my mild criticism here would be deleted and have me banned immediately. 

Edit: I suggested a revision here. I hope it is considered enough proof. If you want to check it out, here it is. 

www.parfumo.com/fdb_c_...

A few words about the situation: You are absolutely right that the justification for the gender specification at that time is more than poor. Back then, 8 years agi, our standards and source documentation on Parfumo were  lower than today.

 But in the meantime, we have set higher standards so that fewer errors are transferred to the database. This now requires that every correction needs a source. And we also now have higher standards as to what is and is not a reputable source.

In this case, this has led to an unfortunate situation, not because anyone in the team has anything against unisex, but because we now work with different, better standards and apply them everywhere, because as you know, one exception leads to many exceptions.

However, asking the brand and WhatsApp verification is completely legitimate, so the change should go through this time. 

@Noturfave please also suggest the same revision on Karagoz and Zenne, using that WhatsApp screenshot as proof. If all of their fragrances are unisex, those also should not be male and female respectively. Thank you for doing the legwork and contacting the brand!

@Omnipotato 

thanks for letting me know. I can go ahead and make that suggestion once I get to my computer.
 

Edit: Done. 

Karagoz - https://www.parfumo.com/fdb_hi...

Zenne - https://www.parfumo.com/fdb_hi...

Well, it seems like someone thinks  that his personal opinion is more important than what the brand has to say about its own products.

@EvitaVilla Yes, someone has something politically/personally against unisex and has mentioned it, including sharing pictures of the puppets. It's silly, but good thing the rest of the team has made its decision not on this logic but on what the brand itself says.

Regardless of what people think, everyone will continue to enjoy their favorite scents. Hacivat continues to be enjoyed more by men than women, and Zenna continues to be enjoyed more by women than men, according to this website's stats. This doesn't destroy the gender binary that so many people seem desperate to uphold. However, this may allow people new to the fragrance world to try to find scents based on profiles they like, rather than using male and female as shorthand.

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Now I'm going to get on my soapbox.

As for unisex perfumes, well, they are not a new trend. They have been around for a very long time. The perfumed oils of ancient Egypt, Greece and the Middle East were used by all sexes. The oldest alcohol-based perfume, Hungary water, was used by both queens and kings. The very oldest Eau de Cologne - Farina's Eau de Cologne, from the City of now known as 4711, is unisex and has been marketed to men and women for a long, long time.

There has always been unisex, just as there has always been gendered perfume. There's nothing wrong with that!

Also, even within the gender binary, the gender of perfume is even different depending on marketing - like Canoe (1935) Eau de Cologne which was marketed as male or female depending on which market it was - I've read here that it was feminine in Europe and South America, and masculine in America (with the same formula!) though now it is marketed as masculine after the reformulation.

The fragrance category "chypre" - containing oakmoss, sometimes labdanum and bergamot - has been embraced by some masculine fragrances like Aramis Eau de Toilette or Eau Sauvage Eau de Toilette despite being originally feminine during the release of the first one - Chypre Eau de Toilette. So has the category "oriental" - originally typified by women's fragrances like Shalimar Eau de Parfum or Tabu Eau de Cologne - now there is Égoïste Cologne Concentrée and A*Men.

Gender and society will always change. This is a natural part of the change.

I honestly don`t care what the label says, aside from notes. I decide what I like and what to wear. As far as making a fuss about a free site that looks as great as this, what`s the point? It`s free AND amazing, baby! And I can review whatever fragrance I want and express my opinion. This is not like Fragrant#%*a, where someone is trying to aggressively push a social agenda down users` throats. I`m really happy to be here, just want perfumes, and the minor details are just that, minor.