Politically incorrect fragrance notes?

76 - 79 by 79
2
Ursaw
JSO60

If we're not describing people, what do we do next? Do we stop referring to Oriental medicine as such? What about Oriental rugs? Should Orient Watch, a subsidiary of Seiko-Epson, be forced to change its name. I  don't have an answer. I'm just wondering what direction this is going.

I don't think I've heard the term "oriental medicine" widely used before. Is that an American thing?

I googled it, and apparently that's a name sometimes used for traditional Chinese medicine (or Eastern traditional medicine more broadly)? In that case – yes, perhaps we should stop referring to it as "oriental", given that an easily understandable official name for it already exists.

And while we're at it, sure, let's stop with "oriental rugs". Those rugs are produced in a variety of different countries/cultures, and I personally think that it would be fair to refer to them as such. On a tangentially related note, it annoys me immensely when people refer to Bessarabian carpets as "Russian carpets". This particular tradition of carpetry originates in Ukraine and its Eastern European neighbors. So yeah, I'd personally love it if we could eventually move on from colonizer language, even if some people find it convenient.

No opinion on Orient Watch, they're a Japanese brand I'm not familiar with and am not the target audience of. Whether their naming convention is reasonable or not is for Japanese people to decide.

Except these are accepted terms. People earn degrees in oriental medicine, such as the Doctor of Accupuncture and Oriental Medicine (see, e.g.  The Atlantic Institute of Oriental Medicine). Orient Watch has been around since the 1950s and is popular among Watch enthusiasts. The question becomes how are these terms used, who is using them, and who is really offended by it. Terms/phrases/concepts come in and out of use. In the US, n****r is seen as offensive, and for good reason. Negro has also gone out of use, but then there is the United Negro College Fund, which is a significant organization providing minority College scholarships. Nor do we refer to people as colored persons. Yet we still have the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. Another significant organization in the US. The question should focus on how these terms are used. Does the phrase "oriental fragrance" cause harm, or is it just a descriptive term in perfumery?

5

Sorry, this is getting long. Read it when you have time.
Oriental Watches originally had a different name, but the meaning is the same, and in 1920 it was called 東洋時計株式会社, Ltd. The kanji for oriental is, so Japan also calls itself Oriental! So why is Oriental "note" strange? Because it doesn't actually refer to the whole of the Orient. It's too broad.It's as strange as calling American culture "Europe".As for me, leaving aside the discussion in this thread about why the word Oriental is problematic, I wanted people to know that Oriental note does not embody all the so-called "Asian scents".

It's often misunderstood, but the so-called Oriental notes of Guerlain are unpopular in Japan. Some people even get angry and say it's "smell harassment." I'm not exaggerating here. I think the reason is that it's a scent that is not familiar to our lives.
In other words, the scent of Shalimar is not "oriental" at all, but more precisely, "India as seen from the West".(or france)So we(japanese) call these "oriental notes". Interesting, isn't it? It's a foreign scent to us too. Of course, that goes for Mitsuko too.The fact is, we are not familiar with the scent of spices from India or Persia.When I see that everyone is saying that it's okay because oriental notes actually refer to India, I think, "Oh?" Is that really the case?

5

Off topic

By the way, Mitsouko was named Mitsouko in 1919 in Europe, where people were fascinated by the culture of the Far East and were experiencing a Japan boom. The name comes from the novel "La Bataille.
It was born at about the same time as the Orient Watch!In fact, Orient Watch was originally called Yoshida Watch. But it is highly likely that they changed the name to appeal to the global when they tried to sell it in the foreign world. At that time, Japan was trying to compete with Western culture. (I asked Orient Watch's support directly about this, and there is no documentation, but at the time japan was exporting watches to Manchuria and Southeast Asia, which were its territories. So I guess they were trying to represent the East a little. This seems imperialistic.) Ursaw said, "Orient Watch is an unfamiliar brand." Orient Watch couldn't survive on demand from Japan alone, so there is a background to its goal of exporting overseas. But it's still strong in Switzerland, so it's no wonder Ursaw doesn't know about it.
Mitsouko is a chypre note, but it has nothing to do with Japan.Japanese people who have tried Mitsouko have said the following:
"It's not as oriental as Shalimar because it's a fragrance inspired by Japan, but I still think it's difficult to use on a daily basis." (Actually, it's fiction, since it's not really inspired by Japan, but the heroine of a novel.)
"Is it true that it has a Japanese name but has nothing to do with Japan?"
"It reminds me of a good old Japanese woman, as people overseas imagine, and it's a beautiful, modest fragrance, but I felt it was too early for me."
Of course, there are many people who say, "It makes me think of kimonos!" but they mean that it's actually a fragrance worn by grandmothers.My mother also wore it, but I never thought of Japanese women. It's the impression of a fragrance worn by a madam. Rather, I thought it was quite "exotic."
Guerlain also said on their official website, "Mtsouko... This name, which means 'mystery' in Japanese, is also the name of the heroine of the novel "La Bataille" by French author Claude Fallaire. "
Well..."Mitsouko" is not a name that means mystery. If it means secret, the nuance is slightly different, but if it does mean secret, it is not a name that is actually used. In short, it is a concept created by a French person who did not know much about Japan in the 1920s.

p.s.
Afterwards, I checked the official website of Guerlain in France and it said that "Mitsuko" is a name that means "mystery" in Japanese, but that was incorrect. I'm surprised.

3
Akira1005

Sorry, this is getting long. Read it when you have time.

No need to apologize. Your two posts were interesting and not off topic as I see it.

3
JSO60
Akira1005

Sorry, this is getting long. Read it when you have time.

No need to apologize. Your two posts were interesting and not off topic as I see it.

That was good!
Actually, there is no Japanese word for Oriental. That's because we have almost no connection to the ancient Egyptian civilization. Apparently, there is an argument that when describing these things, it should be called "Western Asian history (including Egypt)" rather than "Oriental history."That's why Japanese people say "ORIENTARU." Toyo Watch Co., Ltd. actually does not mean Oriental, but The East watch company.
In Japan, a website introducing world history says, "The word Orient in the sense of Orientalism or "East" has a very broad meaning, but when learning world history, the concept of "Orient" is generally from Asia Minor (present-day Turkey) and Egypt to the east, including Iraq, Palestine, and Saudi Arabia, from Iran to the Indus River." This is what we mean by "ORIENTARU."not The East.
"However, the Western definition of the 'Orient' includes the Far East, including Japan, and the concept of symbols such as 'geisha girls' and 'Fujiyama' is called Orientalism. The nuance of the word 'Orient' sometimes reflects the Western view of Asia as 'backward' or 'strange'," says Toshiko Kobayashi in her famous book, 'Ancient Orient History' (2022 Chuokoron Shinsho).

In fact,we feel that it still contains the nuance of backward Asia and strange Asia, which is quite unpleasant, to be honest. Also, the term 'geisha girl' is a big misunderstanding.Geisha is a job that only a limited number of professionals can do, but I think many people don't think that's the case. In other words, from the Western perspective, everything exotic in the East is described as 'Oriental'. That's just how rough it is.
That's about it from my perspective!Thanks.

76 - 79 by 79
Notify about new comments
Forum Overview Perfume Discussions Politically incorrect fragrance notes?
Go to