...We should all bear in mind that we are talking here about changing a term that is apparently part of common parlance, at least in some language areas.In my opinion, it is not helpful to discuss this at such an elevated level that the normal user is excludedLanguage should unite, not divide. Due to difficulties which mainly stem from different international language usage, we exclude the majority of those who just use such terms as they are commonly used in their region. Also we place them under general suspicion of being racist.

...LempiWhat I find interesting is why Western people are so passionate about the o-term? Words and languages are constantly changing in different ways and that has been happening since the beginning of times so why couldn't we invent a neutral word for that genre of fragrances and food?I am surprised that you think, we are passionate about the oriental term. I mean, you suggest we should just invent a new word for another which is for a lot of people not problematic at all because we just do not use it in the way it is understood in some other regions of the world. Imagine, I would say the word „tree“ is used in an offensive way somewhere in Africa so I highly recommend using something else. Wouldn’t it cause discussions? In my opinion language is nothing you just invent.In the german forum we had a short conversation about this topic and I said that I remember times when jokes about blondes where on trend. Still sometimes you can hear a comment like „I am not blonde“, meaning „I am not dumb“. And in the fragrance and beauty community we see a lot of descriptions mentioning „old“ or „mature“, nearly always having a negative connotation because everybody seems to seek for youth. Would anything change if we tried to cancel all the vocabulary we find offensive? And I do not mean the terms which are nearly exclusively used to defame others like the N-word. I am talking about words from common parlance which are used in a problematic way from only a few stupid people.I see all your points and I also agree with you, that a term which relates to the smell might have been a better fit. And yes, you are right, „oriental“ is presumably often only a perception of what people think something oriental would smell like which leads to the question how much bias went into these classifications.

...Omnipotato@Cardea that totally makes sense. It is a "genre" of perfumes like "fougere," "chypre," "gourmand," rather than a word to describe a specific scent: "aquatic," "woody," "sweet," etc.Absoluty on point. That is likely the reason why we are struggeling with the idea of banning this term. It would deprive us of an entire genre which is not only used in perfumery. We have oriental cookbooks, oriental restaurants and even oriental clothing which have never been considered offensive. Even the people with middle eastern background use this term.This said, I see the problem that some people, who have a different connotation, struggle with this term because for them it is not a genre. Complicated. @Lempi People from the Western countries have no right to define how people from the Eastern countries feel about the term "Oriental". Many Asian people think that the word is similar to the n-word so would you use the n-word (even though the original meaning of the word is simply "black") in 2023 on a public forum? I bet you wouldn't. So why should the o-word be any different? Words have original meanings but they change over time and can get pejorative and offensive connotations. Also I'm challenging you to really think if that term even describes the fragrance correctly? According to perfumers for example, the term amber would actually be more accurate.As described above for me „amber“ is a different, more specific term than „oriental“. Also „amber“ has two different meanings here. It absolutely wouldn’t be a proper substitution for the whole oriental genre. The comparison to the N-word is difficult because obviously this term has been used in an inappropriate way internationally, not only limited to certain countries. Other as oriental which just seems to have different meanings in different countries. 

...Lempi@Cardea What do the people who have Asian background think about this in your country? Is the use of the word okay to them, how are they feeling?Now that I have been able to read through all the comments here, especially those of @Omnipotato , whom I want to thank for really broadening my horizons today, I have to answer this question in a more differentiated way.Provided that someone with asian background has been in Germany since early childhood and went never abroad for a longer time I would assume this person would be highly irritated if he/she was called „oriental“. Most of them would likely either think the same as Apicius in the opening statement („Improve your geographical knowledge!“) or as I mentioned, they would find it just weird using the term „oriental“ for the ethnicity. Maybe a combination of both thoughts.After the conversation here I would add that there might be a group of people who would indeed find the term offensive because they experienced other, disrespectful usage of the term oriental. But again, it is really really unlikely that „oriental“ is used here in the context of ethnicity. 

...Omnipotato@Cardea For those notes, we already have all the descriptive words needed in the perfume types: I would say something with those notes would be spicy, sweet, resinous. Why do we need the additional "oriental?"From your point of view I absolutely understand your comment. For me it is like questioning the term „fougère“ or „gourmand“ and asking „Why do we need them? We could just say herbal, aromatic, slightly sweet, woody - instead of fougère.“Also I would say that there might be non-oriental fragrances which are spicy, sweet and resinous. Just as non-fougères with lavender and oakmoss. It is all about terms the connotation which at the end always depends on your experience the cultural environment.It is not my intention to provoke with my statement. I just want to explain that this term - here - is an easy way to describe a certain group of fragrances. Even for people who are not deep into fragrances.

...Omnipotato@Cardea in general in the United States, "oriental" is seen as a very backwards/uneducated/dated way of referring to all East Asians. I don't think it has the same connotations as the n-word, but people will definitely look at you weird if you call someone "oriental," and most probably think you're racist.Understood and maybe that's why we (not we both personally, I mean generally US-EU) talking past each other on this topic.Here, nobody would ever call a person „oriental“. As far as I know (and other Germans please correct me) this term is absolutely limited to cuisine, scents or maybe some kind of art or clothing. It is not because oriental is seen as an unappropriate or outdated term for a person‘s ethnicity. It has just never been used in this way and would sound completely weird. Most people wouldn’t think you are a racist. Instead they would think you just don’t know the meaning of this word because they immediately had the connotation of oriental kitchen or spices not of ethnicity.

...@Omnipotato That is interesting, thank you for the insights.I would say, here it is more commonly used and even restaurants call themselves „oriental“. This covers mostly the Middle East and the spices/dishes which originally come from this region or are used heavily there.Even before I became interested in fragrances I would have associated (a mixture of) scents like ginger, cardamom, (black) cumin, pomegranate, turmeric, chili, aniseed, resin, clove, nutmeg, honey, incense, saffron, vanilla, rose and cinnamon with the term oriental.I never thought about the possibility that it could be completely different in other places in the world. For me, this part of the discussion is much more instructive than the discussion about whether a term should be banned because it is supposedly used in an offensive way. Still, I stand by my opinion that a ban on terms only proves right those who misuse the term. But I have to admit that internationally „oriental“ at this point might be a misleading term in the fragrance community if we don’t have a common understanding.

...Omnipotatoo·ri·ent /ˈôrēənt/ noun 1. LITERARY the countries of Asia, especially eastern Asia.English definition for ya. It refers to East Asia, not only the Middle East, and definitely nowhere near Northern Africa. So it definitely makes sense to update the mistranslation from German if the German word you are currently using refers to the Arab world including North Africa, and excludes East Asia. I am not personally offended by the word "oriental" but I'd rather educate you on the English definition of the word rather than have you think that all English speakers are geographically illiterate.Thank you for this clarification. It is interesting, that „oriental“ has different meanings in Europe and the US so maybe this is the reason why the whole discussion originally arose (thinking of of the Oriental Pearl Tower in Shanghai).And it might be a sign that it is helpful to talk about these terms and be aware of the fact that we all have different backgrounds and use terms in different cultural contexts.  In my opinion, words should therefore not be banned, but we should see this as an opportunity to talk about language and our different views and cultural influences in order to avoid misunderstandings.If we ban terms, we only end up confirming those who use these terms in an abusive or defamatory way. @Omnipotato May I ask you a question? Despite the fact that in the US the „Orient“ includes also the Far East: How is „oriental“ commonly understood in the fragrance community? If an American reads „oriental“ in a perfume description, what would be the connotation?