New U.K. Postal rules.

@ Sherapop: If she was a politician, she would have to resign now!

Well, we can be a bit more relaxed here, and so I agree - let's give her a break.

Thank goodness she's not!

I'm with David Cesarini when it comes to Hannah Arendt.

Have you by chance seen Errol Morris' film "The Fog of War"?

In it, Robert S. McNamara, the chief architect of the Vietnam war, comes off looking eerily Eichmannian--à la Arendt... He amazingly says such things as that he "does not remember" having approved the use of Agent Orange.

There's a tendency to view people in this way, it seems. I myself do not find such depictions harmful. In terms of what could prevent repeats of such atrocities, it's probably a good thing, pragmatically speaking, for people learning about history to acknowledge that they might very well have contributed, had they been present at the time.

Look at Vichy France, after all. Highly educated people, including doctors, eliminated their Jewish competitors by turning them in to the authorities! I highly recommend "Le chagrin et la pitié" [The Sorrow and the Pity] to anyone who has not already seen it.

Well, I did not mean to hijack this thread! Sorry!

****

Return to topic of the thread:

The postal rules are so annoying and frustrating--and above all illogical!

Well let me then make it up by rephrasing it differently and quoting a professor in Management Science who himself quoted a Dutch pilot who is the spokesman of the aviation professionals.
"We should never make security top priority, because if we do so, then either democracy suffers or business processes come to a halt".

These incredibly difficulties arise from an aim to make it less likely something bad will happen and diminish risk to almost zero.
As a result, we had TSA which slowed down check-in procedures at the airport so much that many countries abandoned it again.

Another quote from yet another professor, this time in traffic safety, I overheard many months ago, was about how people accept a certain level of risk. When risks are diminished on one level, they will seek risks on another level. In our country hundreds of millions of euros were spent on roundabouts. This has perhaps saved the life of less than 10 persons, yet in other ways people still manage to kill themselves.. last weekend there was a very tragic casualty of young kids (16 & 18 ) in a car, where the driver slalommed around the beams of a train crossing in order to get at the other side.. and got killed. You can try to rule out dangers and it will pop up on another (unexpected) side you had never imagined.

Maybe this crazyness will come to an end some day. Sofar I have little hope.

I think we will have to see, just how bad it's going to affect all the online businesses, and ebay sellers etc. Once the penny drops, as just how much things will be affected, then there may be an adjustment of some kind. I have no idea what kind of adjustment, but I do feel there will be a lot of complaints from all sectors, so...maybe there may be a change of some sort? (here's me, trying to be optimistic!

I think you said it well. "Once the penny drops ..." I am just surprised that the penny has not already dropped !
TauerPerfumes is a small business and he made adjustments, as followers of his blog can read by updates.

Fedex and the new Shipwire may get more business, charging rates that the businesses either can afford, or not.
I believe that more could be accomplished if some PROTECTIVE WRAPPER were invented and then uniquely used for perfumes as "inflammable" hazardous goods and then they are "safely shipped".

The whole thing is so incongruous, ridiculous and blown out of proportion. The plane itself carries tons of Diesel fuel making the machine itself hazardous in flight, ha ha ha - I would laugh if it were not so pathetic.

So, who is affected the most by these new enforced air traffic Rules ?
Small businesses that ship to many international customers.

"Gone with the wind" was a movie where old traditions were blown away by the winds of change. Here too, the recently enforced Rules will shake the material like a sieve, and the best remains while the rest falls through.

Excellent point!

Yep. But I did not have that point first. It was AromiErotici in that other thread about the same topic.

www.parfumo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=888&high light=

So, how can Rules about tiny bottles be made that important ? Beats me.

Only a conspiracy can resolve this conundrum!

These rules are strange. Let me tell you about two mails I got from eBay sellers I bought from, both based in the UK. They both shipped the perfume on the same day, January 14th, the day that those new rules were officially applied. Seller #1 is a private seller, no big business, he sent me a decant. At the post office he was told that he would not be able to ship perfumes by airmail outside the UK any longer. Still, the postmistress accepted his parcel, it made it through customs and safely to my house. Seller #2 has a larger business, he sent me a full bottle. About a week after shipping the item out, he received a notice that the bottle would not be delivered to me, and that he couldn't retrieve his bottle either. He has changed all his sales to UK only now.

Still, I see some UK based fragrance sellers (big businesses) that still list their perfumes as shipping available worldwide.
These rules are applicable in most countries, but now and then (more often than not) perfume will slip through the net and arrive in its country of destination. Only last week I received another bottle of perfume from the USA, and it clearly said perfume on the customs form (sent with USPS).
In my country of residence, they tell us perfumes can't be sent out by airmail, but on the other hand, import of perfume is allowed. Crazy, right? I have sent and received countless perfumes whether it is through swaps or just bought, and so far nothing has been lost.

So now what? As other members have already stated: I don't foresee duty free sale of perfumes being abolished in the near future. Airplanes are filled with Diesel. Air travelers are allowed to travel with their perfume.

We don't have any answers for the question as to WHY these rules are there. I'm sure it must be some kind of security issue. But again: there are too many contradictions in the whole thing to make it valid.
That is my humble opinion.

There is a momentum to everything. If too many businesses experience losses with these restrictions, then either the businesses find a way around it (a conspiracy - hear Sherapop) or the rules get mitigated or abolished if they become damaging to economic growth.

I am still puzzled as to why and how this all started.

Screaming in frustration is one thing, to come up with a workable solution is another.

Ideas ?

Good point, Pipette!
Please, no one should take this observation personally: Rather than using this thread to simply vent about this issue or conjecture about the origins of the ban perhaps we should use it and Parfumo at large as a rallying point for information to affect positive change.

For instance, perhaps one of our British Parfumo members could find out the address or email address of the authorities in Britain so we could vent our frustration at those who are responsible for imposing the ban or those who have the power to overturn the ban. Or, better yet, let the authorities know about the economic harm to small business and propose ideas that address the authority's concerns for safety. Didn’t someone on the thread mentioned the use flame retardant packing materials? There must be many, many more ideas for solutions out there in there realm of Parfumo that would be better directed to those writing the rules than simply bandied about on this thread.

All the hand wringing, griping and preaching to the choir will get us nowhere closer to a solution. Let’s focus our collective power in a way that may bring about change. Before you scoff at the idea of our “collective power” think of all our connections to other fragrance websites, we’re talking about what, tens of thousands of people? And who knows? May be one of our perfume wearing brothers or sisters has a direct connection with just the right government official who will at least listen to our concerns and help bring about change.

Signed,
Your ever optimistic friend in fragrance,
Greysolon

I got a poster today from the USPS. The rules I am looking at apply to using customs forms, I need to figure out a way to post it. Specifically, it says that customs forms that say 'cosmetics' might contain flammable fragrance. You have to be specific. Say lip gloss. There are other examples but I need to find out how to upload it here.

I was mailing some books this week and noticed that the clerk specifically stated 'no perfume' when he asked his questions verifying compliance with the rules/laws (not sure which they are, actually...).

This is cruel. Forcing us explicitly to lie just to do what we ought to be able to do given that it's not even a real but only a pseudo-hazard.

About to ship a swap parcel to a member in Europe.
Due to this damn ban, and neither wishing to risk the annihilation of the goodies, nor paying an arm and a leg for some exotic courier services, I went hunting and found a solution with the good old UK Post Office.

It is indeed possible to send packets worldwide weighing up to 2 kilos via Surface Mail.
I must warn you that it will give a whole new meaning to Snail Mail, but at least, it means that exchanges are still possible and it will give you an opportunity to use the adage “Patience is a virtue”.

Here are the approximate ETAs …

Western Europe: up to 2 weeks
Eastern Europe: up to 5 weeks
North America: up to 6 weeks
South America, Africa and Asia: up to 8 weeks
Australasia: up to 12 weeks

www.postoffice.co.uk/surface#prices_&_size

Thanks for that, @Dolby. So, this means they don't ask you what is in the parcel? Or, do you still have to fill out one of those green declaration forms? It seems funny to me, why feelunique (for example) doesn't use this option, as they are not shipping perfumes any longer, just cosmetics. It doesn't really matter how slow it is, if someone wants the perfume bad enough, they will have to be patient!

Yes of course, the customs form still has to be filled in.
Perhaps you could drop feelunique a line about it.

In the NLs we don't even have the option to choose for surface mail anymore, at least not that I know of.. they did away with that choice maybe 5-8 years ago?

20130215_185328 by ConiferLover, on Flickr

20130215_185315_resized by ConiferLover, on Flickr

The whole thing is still ridiculous and I will continue fibbing.

I've decided to pack what I'm sending in small gwp purses, and I'll just write "purse" on the form.

With so much confusion surrounding this issue the faint-hearted will be deterred from posting.

I recently had some dealings with a seller who refused to post from Melbourne to Sydney because she thought it was illegal and could not be persuaded otherwise. She kept reducing the buy-it-now price but refused to sell it to me because I couldn't pick up even though I'd have paid her top price - so frustrating

I am totally confused. After having ordered from AusLiebezumDuft, a shop in Germany, the DHL is used to ship my order of one perfume bottle, with so-called inflammable content. Via a tracking number I can follow the transit of the item. It has now left Germany. I am assuming that DHL uses planes and not boats.

The Perfumestore can send it and a normal person can not?

When the package arrives, I shall examine the stickers on the package and the wrapping material inside the package. There are probably no extra hazardous material protective cushionings.

Why are there different rules for regulars and for stores?

Candy boxes. I've changed my plan.