EXILED! The stories from Defected Fragrantican Members

Yup, FragrantGuy is THE WORST. Parfumo is the place to be! 🩷

I've asked Elena Knezevic to delete my account. I went there because of my love for perfumes, but I don't care for the weird, boring, non-interactive format of the review section. Also, while I met some wonderful people on the Romanian version of the site (some of whom are now active here), the English version was kind of scary and aggressive. I got the sense that the editors might be biased, only a very limited number of launches get articles and reviews from them. And the worst part for me was the religious, homophobic, political proselytizing of the founder and some of her acolytes. If I wanted political commentary, I'd read the news or go to Twitter. Funny how she dubs herself "a journalist."  I'm guessing they're losing a lot of subscribers and pretty soon that place will become an echo chamber for people of a certain type. Too stressful forme.  

Two things that got my attention:

- The snobbishness of many Basenotes participants

- The overreaction to some reviews and posts in Fragrantica

I stopped participating in Basenotes.

In the case of Fragrantica, I publish reviews and I post without any expectations; in the case I am confronted by over sensitive people through offensive comments, I don't reply and I report these comments to moderators. So far, it worked.

What I like of Parfumo is that user's participation is the right one for avoiding obsessed members claiming territoriality, which at the same time leads to hyping preferences, byzantine discussions and whatnot. 

Besides, Parfumo's UI has a technical character that I do not find in the other sites.

Defector here.  I want to do some venting and it looks like this is the place.  This will be long-winded.

Joined fragrantica in 2014.  Asked for first account to be deleted because too many of my forum posts were being arbitrarily deleted.  Asked for my second account to be deleted for the same reason.  Third account (which I had since 2019) deleted by Elena over posts in the infamous July 2024 Trump article.  Will not return.  Here are my gripes:

1. Negativity permeats administrator-created content.  I mean, the politics!  I echo many others' comments that Elena (Jeca) and her hubby Zoran (Zoka) are politically provocative and intentionally incite hateful speech.  Undertones of racism, sexism, and homophobia.  The overall content resembles a dumpster fire and these two throw gas on it, constantly.  

2. Negativity permeats user-created content.  The fact alone that you can downvote reviews by 'popping' balloons is just juvenile.  FG makes it easy to suppress 'unpopular' opinions (see censorship below).  There is no mechanism for quantifying up or down votes, i.e., their 'helpfulness,' only the ridiculous balloon system.  Favorable reviews are awarded with lots of balloons, and critical reviews are 'downvoted' off the page.  Gone.  The result:  every perfume is amazing!  YEARS after user complaints, FG revised the system--not by providing for a counter, but instead by making it even more vague and arbitrary.  Now there are bunny balloons, donkeys, red, purple, clusters, hot air balloons--and no way of knowing what any of them mean.  MONTHS after user complaints/questions/comments on the 'new' system, Zoka published a guide in the forums which did not actually explain anything.  (See more below on Zoka's interactions with users.)  Aside from a fundamentally flawed 'rating' system, users frequently spar in the review sections, intentionally skew notes/accords, and abuse the 'reminds me of section.'  Additionally, FG is slow to remove obvious shill reviews posted by brand promoters.   

3. Rampant censorship.  Not only are negative or critical fragrance reviews censored by the 'downvote-until-disappear' balloon system, but so are critical user posts in forums and on 'news articles' (see pseudo-journalism below).  "Free to Choose" is FG's motto (as of a few years ago).  Elena (Jeca) has explained it to users various times as an iteration of 'Free Speech.'  It also, apparently, has anti-COVID vax implications.  FG's hypocritical stance on speech is honestly the most infuriating thing about the site.  While purporting to encourage and foster an environment of open communication, mods (Zelda in the forums) and Elena/Jeca in the articles REGULARLY remove dissenting viewpoints.  When given (often it's not), the justification for removal of forum posts is that, I sh*t you not, they are overtly POLITICAL or offensive.  I have seen users be put in 'time-out' when they get too mouthy in forums, or banned outright.  If you call out the mods or Elena on this censorship practice, expect to have your comments immediately deleted (she called it 'hygiene' in the Trump article--I won't even go into the subtext of that) or to be banned.  That's what happened to me.  I used a buzz word, 'propoganda,' in the Trump article, received LOTS of balloons on my comment (indicting its 'popularity,' I think), and Jeca deleted it.  When I called her out, that post was deleted.  When I commented that 'free speech' means what Jeca says it means, she deleted my 5-year-old account without explanation.  The end result of FG's censorship?  A neo-conservative echo chamber.  **Just as an example of how RIDICULOUS FG is, any time you type the phrase "old lady" into a review or forum post, FG automatically translates it as "Bank of England."  Also, a few years ago, FG decided it did not want to use the word "Oriental" and so changed every place it was used on the site to "Amber."  Seriously.   

4.  Pseudo-journalism.  FG holds itself out as an online perfume 'magazine."  Ha.  Journalistic (I use that term lightly) content consists of: (1) covering the FG annual "perfume awards" for months in advance; (2) perfume horoscopes published every Sunday; (3) new releases (99% of the time copied directly from competing online perfume content/press releases and often REPEATEDLY POSTED; it's nothing to see 2, 3, or 4 'articles' on a 'new' release); (4) 24-7 non-stop Exscence coverage (I swear, there were 20 articles on the 2024 conference); and (5) PERFUME REVIEWS.  This last one gets me.  Since when is a 'columnist's' REVIEW newsworthy?  These columnists are fragrantica users who get their reviews catapulted to front-page news.  Eddie Bulliqi is a prime example.  His reviews permeate FG content.  Why?  90% of them read like they are written by AI.  SMH.  Also, I can't count how many times a USER will post an interesting and novel topic in the forums which generates a lot of substantive commentary, only to have a FG 'columnist' coincidentally 'create' an 'article' on the exact same subject shortly after.  Bulliqi has done this numerous times.  Finally, FG is shamelessly self-promoting.  Several staff are also indie perfumers.  It's not uncommon to see their new releases showcased as front-page news.  Makes me appreciate perfumers with integrity, like Olympic Orchid's Ellen Covey.  Once OO took off, she stopped reviewing other frags on FG to avoid any appearance of impropriety.  Not everyone can be so awesome.

5.  Paternalism.  FG does not allow grown-*ss users to advertise perfume sales.  I have never understood this restriction.  It's not as if there's liability for the site; it posts disclaimers all over the place.  Why not let the adults be adults?  Also, FG does not allow users TO DELETE THEIR OWN THREADS.  We used to be able to create a forum thread and then close it, say, when you got the answers you were looking for or it was just too old to be relevant.  FG quietly eliminated that feature some time ago.  When asked by users in subsequent threads on the topic, Zoka explained that threads needed to be preserved because users put in 'time and effort' to answer and he didn't want that information lost.  Nevermind that Zelda routinely closes and/or deletes threads.  Pray tell, where do the posts go then?  Finally, FG terms of use/privacy policy EXPRESSLY states that users can delete their accounts from their 'profile page."  Not so.  Anyone who wants to delete their account has to contact a Elena or Zoka directly.  This leads to inflated "users" (and don't get me started on "members online" feature--FG advertises 1.2 MILLION users worldwide, however, no more than a few THOUSAND are ever online at one time. Hmm).

6. Clumsy and cumbersome UI.  Waaaay too much bloated and useless content causes pages to take FOREVER to load.  They often crash in the process and reload several times.  Every time you select "want" or "ad" a fragrance, a useless pop up appears asking you to rate various criteria.  "Perfume tracker" graphs the 'popularity' of a fragrance over time, though it doesn't indicate any parameters for 'popularity."  (To their credit, FG looks to have removed this feature.) AI-generated "features" of the fragrance purportedly based on analysis of the reviews language (presented as "pros" and "cons") cause further lag.  If you know anything about FG 'reviews,' this feature is doubly-dumb.  Also, FG HATES safari; you have to run Chrome on Apple.  And God forbid you have more than one FG browser tab open simultaneously.  Expect a pointed reprimand from FG, which apparently thinks you are a bot.

7. Extreme redundancy in forum threads.  I have probably seen 1000 posts on what to wear to a job interview.  

8. A billion ads and broken advertiser links.  For example, a fragrance page has links to (1) ebay; (2) amazon; and (3) fragrancenet (some pages have other retailers, too).  I prefer to shop ebay, so I click the link to ebay.  It routes me first, to fragrancenet.  I click the ebay link again and it routes me to amazon.  Finally, on the third click, FG directs me to ebay.  I raised this issue a few times in forums over the years.  Zoka's response?  The SITE ITSELF decides link priority.  Have you ever heard of such a thing?  IOW, a user clicks the link and FG 'thinks about' whether or not it will direct me there, and if it 'decides' that fragnet or amazon are better choices, directs me there instead.  Users constantly report and complain about ads in the forums. No one cares. Pages are populated by numerous, invasive ads. Even running an ad blocker, irrelevent ads and obnoxious pop-ups are inescapable.

9. Backlogged database.  In 10 years on the site, I requested TWO perfumes be added to the database.  One took 3 YEARS.  The other?  Well, I asked in 2020 and it still hasn't been added.  The forum for adding perfumes, last I checked, is in version 16 (the threads max out at approximately 400 posts, so you do the math).  

10. Poor privacy protection and obscured licensing agreement.  When users' reviews are pirated by other online sites, Zoka's response?  'We've sent a cease and desist letter.'  Most FG users don't realize that they grant FG an IRREVOCABLE license to any content they supply the website, including but not limited to reviews and Fragram photos.  Thankfully, some users watermark their images because there are some really talented and creative photographers who use the Fragram function.  Notwithstanding, FG unconditionally OWNS users' intellectual property and obscures that fact in excessively long user-agreement boiler plate.  The only way to opt-out? Don't use the site.  Gross.

In sum, fragrantica just plain ole' sucks.  Thanks for letting me rant.  I am leaving it all behind w/o regrets.  I like the vibe here already and want to work on building content by adding reviews.  That's my short-term goal.  Long-term, I just want a useful perfume database with friendly forums that I can browse without getting my blood pressure up.

Cheers!

Note* Edited as I remembered more FG shenanigans.

Good Journalism should be completely unbiased. It used to be very important in the field…one of the signs of a great journalist was how well they maintained impartiality. When you have this sort of biased opinionated garbage it ceases to be journalism and becomes PROPAGANDA. I am very embarrassed for the actual good writers of Fragrantica for being associated with Elena. 

Yeh, I can't knock all the FG contributors because some obviously take their jobs seriously, and their content shows it.  The majority, though, questionable.

I totally troll FragrantGuy, just to yank his (?) chain. Personally, I think he's heavily closeted. 

Another defector here! I've found that the community on FG is rather toxic and tends to involve politics in a lot of things that should be purely about perfumes. The moderators and admins seem to be promoting their own political views more instead of reviewing fragrances. Honestly the reason why it took me so long to switch to another website is because I really loved their shelf function.

Welcome! And let us know if there is any feature you miss...

@Czarcasm welcome!  Once you work with it a little bit, you'll discover that the shelf function here is infinitely better than "that other site".  Clicking on a perfume icon bottle opens a menu that allows you to delete, move to another shelf and copy to another shelf. And it all works reliably! "That other site" has a very clumsy, 20+ year old way of deleting and adding, no copy or move, and you have to refresh the cache to get a true look of the configuration. Very outdated; much better here!  

I left because I'd heard of the homophobia from the owners, and the site itself just felt outdated, the features for organizing perfumes weren't up to my personal standards, I liked a lot of the users on there though :] I haven't used it enough to come across too many unsavory users, after poking around on here I'm very happy with the site and hope there will be lots of interactions on here as I'd love to make friends.

I think I’m going to delete my account there too. There is all sorts of underhand stuff going on there, & has been for a long time. The Trump thing is just the latest. They censor/delete what they don’t like at will & call it “hygiene” or “against the rules” ….but only when it suits their own agenda.  They definitely switch or reverse the “thumbs up/down” function, I know because I’ve played around with it in the comments. I hate the utter contempt they display towards those members who don’t share their politics & weird opinions. I think it’s disgusting behaviour since it is the members who make up the majority of their content, & have made the site as popular as it is.

I opened an account here some years ago because they blocked me for downthumbing a series of fake reviews from some writer with multiple accounts & usernames (there were at least 10) This person was writing literally hundreds & hundreds of reviews under various guises (& being awarded perfume prizes by Fragrantica) It was also obvious that the writer had never even smelled some of the perfumes that they were writing multiple reviews for. When it was rumbled by other members, it was all swept under the carpet & the thread swiftly deleted. 

I do visit here, but have to admit I struggle with the user functions. I’m not good with technology. Once I work out a way to transfer my reviews I intend to delete my account there.

I've sat and watched this thread since I joined Parfumo... I think I can finally add my two cents here and say I'm gonna delete my account.

From the downright inane, foolish, childish, and spam-y blurbs of text that can barely be called "reviews", to the clearly NSFW profile pics on accounts that stayed up for 10-12hrs before being deleted, and the staff having rather... Questionable (at best) ethics. Just a garbage site overall.

Every day I come onto Parfumo I feel more welcomed, and at-home here than I did in that ideological echo-chamber over on Trollgrantica. The difference in community here speaks volumes alone. 

As far as I'm concerned, I've been part of France's Frangntica, Romanian and Russian communities.

But I've noticed that you've been invisible for years. There are groups forming, you can see it in the discussions, but you remain persona non grata. I needed to talk to you, to share my passion, but unfortunately I couldn't find it on any of these sites.

Here, I feel at ease and you can see the exchange between people. Everyone has the right to exist here.

What's more, I've discovered many fragrant nuggets in the course of sharing and exchanging with other members.

I'm very happy about that.

I'm going to continue on Parfumo without any hesitation.

I've been on Fragrantica for years and have had over 100 good reviews. Simply, the option to delete reviews from members is stupid. Due to personal frustrations, a certain group at Fragrantica used balloons and a thumbs down to delete comments. 
You will rarely find a negative comment on  Fragrantica, you simply cannot express an honest opinion. 
Fragrantica is a very negative platform, full of tricks, intrigue, which has lost its meaning. Here you allowed to express your opinion, of course, in a nice and cultured way. It's much more relaxed, I think there are real perfume lovers here.

I asked them to delete my account, Emir, the lead developer at Fragrantica appeared, who was very rude, but did as I asked.

For me Fragrantica is forgotten. 

Hello! I have been on Fragantica for a little while, I don't really post on forums, but I use it to check fragrance notes and reviews before I buy a fragrance. I had a condescending message regarding too many request?????? that I need to slow down, accusing me of being malicious, seriously I was just checking out the notes and reviews before I blind choose a fragrance. Anybody else had an experience like this?

I think everyone who used their site had this at some point. It's nothing personal, just the message you get when you open too many tabs at once. Not as funny as they think it is, but honestly one of the lesser offenses of those weirdos 😆

The purpose of limiting the number of requests within a certain period of time is to thwart a DOS attack. 

I noticed that you have a Russian language version of this site. Would it be possible to consider making a similar one for speakers of Romanian? Thank you.

I had this happen today after I looked up about six perfumes in a row to check to notes. It’s ridiculous !!!!

I just gotta say that it’s horrible website design that can’t handle basic functions and it seems to be run by tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists 

I would laugh but it’s just pathetic 

Just sent a request to have my Fragrantica account deleted. 

I’ve been a user since 2011 when I was just 19 and getting into fragrance! I fully matured into this hobby on that website, and I was an avid participant, including writing reviews and participating in the forums. However, the  obvious politicisation of the site, blatant homophobia, anti-vax sentiments and undertones of racism have completely put me off. I also do not like that the site disfavours negative reviews and is clunky and annoying to use. 

I have not participated on the site in several months mostly owing to the Summer article on Trump, but my final push was the article promoting his new perfume just before the elections and the discourse surrounding that. I am not American, but that left such a sour taste in my mouth that the owners can so openly express and promote their politics on a site that should strictly propel a hobby. Perfume is my happy place, and I want to enjoy it on a site that does not purport any kind of nonsense, especially that linked to Trump, racism, homophobia etc..

I have migrated most of my reviews to this site already, and have also built my shelves and collection. I much prefer it here already. 

P/S can someone please tell me how to tag a perfume in the forums? Like when I’m commenting… 

Good for you @CallMeTee and welcome to Parfumo! I asked them to delete my account too for the same reasons a while ago. I hope you will enjoy it here, it's a very friendly and kind community. 

Just put a # right next to the fragrance name.

# Hayloft

It's brutal there. It's all political, as in "I don't like the reviewer, so this fragrance is awful" or "It's too expensive so it's horrible" etc.  

I understand the marketing gimmicks, the free bottles, all that. It doesn't take a genius to get the marketing process. With that said, the materials, creative direction and perfumer have literally nothing to do with the marketing scheme. Either the perfumer, materials and fragrance are good or they aren't. Period. 

It's endless on that site, and it's leaking over here as well.